One thing i’ve found in doing ministry is that you can’t help how other people feel and some people can change their attitude and soften while others are stubborn, rude, angry, and don’t ever plan on change. (And let’s hope God gets a hold of their hearts!) If people refuse help, then that’s on them. There are a ton of examples in scripture where people didn’t want Jesus’ help and turned away. (rich young ruler being one) and Jesus doesn’t chase them down and ask “are you sure” he lets them go on their way and they live with the choices they made. If all we do is “service” for people and never engage in conversation or help to meet some needs then i think we’ve missed the point of what we are doing. It’s like a job. If all you do is show up, work, punch in and out and never engage or develop yourself then you are missing out on so many other things.

Jesus does tell us to do things not in a boastful way but at the same time, that doesn’t mean like you stated ding, dong, ditch christmas presents. There are better ways to go about it.

One thing i’ve found in doing ministry is that you can’t help how other people feel and some people can change their attitude and soften while others are stubborn, rude, angry, and don’t ever plan on change. (And let’s hope God gets a hold of their hearts!) If people refuse help, then that’s on them. There are a ton of examples in scripture where people didn’t want Jesus’ help and turned away. (rich young ruler being one) and Jesus doesn’t chase them down and ask “are you sure” he lets them go on their way and they live with the choices they made. If all we do is “service” for people and never engage in conversation or help to meet some needs then i think we’ve missed the point of what we are doing. It’s like a job. If all you do is show up, work, punch in and out and never engage or develop yourself then you are missing out on so many other things.

Jesus does tell us to do things not in a boastful way but at the same time, that doesn’t mean like you stated ding, dong, ditch christmas presents. There are better ways to go about it.

Solid stuff, Kevin. Especially how this is what it means to follow Jesus – not merely to do good deeds or earn spiritual points, but because “this is our identity.” Thank you for your years of service, too!

Solid stuff, Kevin. Especially how this is what it means to follow Jesus – not merely to do good deeds or earn spiritual points, but because “this is our identity.” Thank you for your years of service, too!

Well-worded phrase here, Bryce: “…much to the confusion of the non-Bible-reading public.” It reminded me of how much insiders language we have on these matters, even in regards to this verbiage. Maybe the catch is making sure we speak as missionaries (in the language of that culture versus our own).

Well-worded phrase here, Bryce: “…much to the confusion of the non-Bible-reading public.” It reminded me of how much insiders language we have on these matters, even in regards to this verbiage. Maybe the catch is making sure we speak as missionaries (in the language of that culture versus our own).

At the same time, maybe this just gives us an opportunity to draw a deeper understanding of the things we do for others and the relationships we develop after doing them. Being an American living in the UK, All kinds of terminologies caught me off guard. Many were very unhelpful (and still are), like “Filter-lane” rather than “Turn Lane” or “Pavement” rather than “Side Walk”. One is definitely more descriptive than the other and surely that’s what is so useful about language, it’s ability to describe something in one or 2 words.
But these things are simply something to get used to and may only become an issue once someone brings them up. Which is why we have a buzillion translations and interpretations and versions of the Bible, much to the confusion of the non-Bible-reading public.

At the same time, maybe this just gives us an opportunity to draw a deeper understanding of the things we do for others and the relationships we develop after doing them. Being an American living in the UK, All kinds of terminologies caught me off guard. Many were very unhelpful (and still are), like “Filter-lane” rather than “Turn Lane” or “Pavement” rather than “Side Walk”. One is definitely more descriptive than the other and surely that’s what is so useful about language, it’s ability to describe something in one or 2 words.
But these things are simply something to get used to and may only become an issue once someone brings them up. Which is why we have a buzillion translations and interpretations and versions of the Bible, much to the confusion of the non-Bible-reading public.

Marc, great catch. The only alternative I’d offer is we have a family in our church who has real needs… only they’ve refused help because in their last church they felt like a project. People would come, do things for them and then leave. It actually was all without any relationship or community to it. Just this past week, I was finally able to get them to receive some help from us – but I had to tell them, “I’m going to stay one step out of this process, so that if you feel those involved with helping you cross a line you can come to me and let me know.”

Maybe that’s the kind of sensitivity the original article is offering. Tony Campolo and Mike Yaconelli used to advocate that if you have Christmas gifts for a group of kids, don’t ring the doorbell, enter in, watch them open it and take a picture of it all… it emasculates the dad or humbles the mom who couldn’t provide for the kids themselves. Instead, he’d offer, go ring the doorbell and leave the gifts while you run away so the gifts can be claimed in secret. I’m not sure that is the sure-fire solution, as it can make people feel like the people in my church felt in the past… but I understand the intentions of their point. What do you think?

Marc, great catch. The only alternative I’d offer is we have a family in our church who has real needs… only they’ve refused help because in their last church they felt like a project. People would come, do things for them and then leave. It actually was all without any relationship or community to it. Just this past week, I was finally able to get them to receive some help from us – but I had to tell them, “I’m going to stay one step out of this process, so that if you feel those involved with helping you cross a line you can come to me and let me know.”

Maybe that’s the kind of sensitivity the original article is offering. Tony Campolo and Mike Yaconelli used to advocate that if you have Christmas gifts for a group of kids, don’t ring the doorbell, enter in, watch them open it and take a picture of it all… it emasculates the dad or humbles the mom who couldn’t provide for the kids themselves. Instead, he’d offer, go ring the doorbell and leave the gifts while you run away so the gifts can be claimed in secret. I’m not sure that is the sure-fire solution, as it can make people feel like the people in my church felt in the past… but I understand the intentions of their point. What do you think?