Please excuse me but I am having a hard time understanding how you as a pastor can support gay marriage when God ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman.

This is good perspective, Ryan. The challenge is to extend this point over the fence. In other words, can we not make up our minds about people who make up their minds… otherwise we fall into that same insensitive trap while trying to be sensitive.

Appreciate your comments, Steve. And I appreciate your friendship, too. Where I’d take a different path than you on this is the pairing of the words “gay” and “marriage.” I simply can’t say them together, even though culture keeps trying to get me to redefine it that way.

It reminds me of an old riddle Abe Lincoln once told. He asked a boy, “How many legs does a dog have, if you call his tail a leg?” The boy answered, “Five.” Lincoln said, “The answer is four, because calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it a leg.”

I’ll admittedly offer that my mind is “made” up on that – just as the emerging culture is having it’s mind “made” up to call tails legs. Confesionally, I;m really struggling with that.

It seems like this is the key, Brad – not merely preaching Christianity or its morals, but sharing Christ and letting Him do the transformation on all of us from the inside out.

Powerful insights, Shawn. Especially that God has given us the ability to discern for a reason… and even gifted us the Holy Spirit to do so.

“My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.” 1 Corinthians 2:4-5

This is a great point, Roger. There is a reverse vilification that is happening if you don’t agree with whomever has the microphone. Currently, the largest amplifier on this seems to be every awards show or interview. Why is it when someone says, “I’m gay” there is a thunder of applause to support that, but if someone says, “I’m heterosexual” there’s nothing comparable? Arguably, we’ve been trained to show support due to some of the negativity that has happened… but it feels like we’ve been trained a little too well culturally.

I appreciate your point about turning to Jesus on this. Without Him, we’re just all finding smarter ways to make our pre-existing points. With Him, we can experience conviction and humility that matters.

I really like this comment of yours, Rachel: “I think the key to this is approaching the subject biblically, but making it clear that we value and love every person that God has created.” Amen to that!

I appreciate the honesty of your comment, Bret. However, I need to disagree with how you used the Bible that night. A common argument in these circles is what the “gay” texts say and don’t say. If you’re going to make an argument from silence, then why not consider its alternative argument from silence. For example, where in the Bible does God endorse a same-sex relationship? See what I mean?

It doesn’t sound like you gave that a fair shake. As such, you shared a handful of verses without the larger context. Nowhere in the Bible has God ever encouraged same sex relationships. In fact, what does He encourage? Even if you look with the flawed relationships that his people created, He always seems to be looking for an angle to bring couples back to an opposite-sex, monogamous commitment to each other. I don’t want to create layers and layers of debate with you on this, but more to point out that you might want to circle back and present the whole context of the Bible on this versus an interpretation of controversial verses.

Verses, by the way, that don’t seem so unclear when you consider this larger context.

good comments Ryan. this is such a difficult subject to have conversation on, much less teach on. its close to my heart for personal reasons, and I get what you are saying. I think it has been made into some kind of current “hot” topic debate because it is such a visual sin. we all carry around with us sin and baggage, but most of it we can hide from those around us, basically. we still sing on the praise team, serve in nurserys, and make the coffee on sunday mornings, no one dabates over whether my sins should keep me from serving….why do we do this to them? it is so confusing, when Christ walked this earth He associated with, and even more than that Lovingly Hung Out With people of all walks of life and the culture thought he was crazy for it. maybe we just keep loving and including the broken, no matter the type of brokenness, and let the talk and judgment of others fall away. im not saying that I agree with the lifestyle, perhaps there are aspects of my life others wouldn’t agree with. lord knows ive heard enough judgment on the fact my family reads and adores harry potter and Dr who, that my kids have seen the lord of the rings trilogy, and that we rock out to ACDC from time to time. I wish we would stop taking stock of others short comings all the time and try lifting each other up, let iron sharpen iron and let the Spirit sort us out. He freed us to love each other, let just do that. we over complicate things…I think the key to this is approaching the subject biblically, but making it clear that we value and love every person that God has created. it takes an immense amount of compassion and we must choose our words very very carefully. Jesus was so purposeful in the places he went, the people he visited, and the words he spoke. their was immense power in his voice, and his words were measured…..we should be like Christ and weigh our words on this subject before we go out into the world and do more harm than good. we may be decided on this, most of us know what the Bible says about this subject. but I am not decided about people, I am not going to make an all encompassing choice about a “people” group without ever getting to know them. Without ever giving them the chance to know Jesus through me…..